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(Loose Ends) Pre-organization

Posted 6 Months ago by Xhin

Like my other pre-organization notes, am moving all related Notes in here. Anything in here will eventually be turned into a checklist in the VII. Loose Ends project.

  • Materials v3 -- Should be mostly checklisted
  • Mouse Movement -- Needs checklist
  • Misc Materials Integration -- Needs checklist
  • Camping Update -- Needs Checklist
  • Gashroom Bomb Update -- Needs Checklist
  • Bombs v1 Brainstorming -- Needs Notes
  • Trading Upgrades -- Needs Checklist

  • There are 8 Replies

    Materials v3

    This is yet another upgrade to the way raw materials generate. It brings the system back in line with my original notes from ~2015. There are several points to this upgrade:

  • Makes exploration more rewarding, without impacting game flow.

  • Fixes the problems inherent in the current discoveries tab.

  • Makes resource names better.

  • Improves the utility of Books and Scout Animals.

  • Heavily improves the quality of the game's procedural generation. Seeds will actually play pretty differently from each other now.


  • The existing resources system where you get a different number of resources based on the solids surrounding it is getting removed. This system is far better and ties in way better with core game mechanics as well.

  • The five-colored random : for resources will change to something more fixed -- maybe keep the five-color system (with better designations) with a symbol that matches whatever you're picking up or something. Or it might be like starshards where it's just the symbol by itself. Whatever it is I want it to be visible but not too distracting.

  • What you're picking up is one of the five basic types -- Rocks, Insects, Grasses (Plants), Shrubs (Brush) and Trees (Trunk). However what the material is depends on the terrain around it, including the new formations. This system merges with the existing water system but has some extra stipulations (or maybe less for more common resources).

  • This update makes the discoveries tab even more useless, so it's going to be scrapped -- you'll instead get a resources widget that tells you how to find resources you've "discovered" and how many you have left to discover. More on this in the discoveries v2 section.

  • It's possible but extremely unlikely that some resources are unobtainable due to the procedural generation lining up just right for rare resources. I seriously doubt this will happen though -- you have three 1200x1200 grids to search through (and potentially more if I increase the nonad size). That's nearly 4.3 million tiles.

  • The conditions surrounding a particular resource changes its name -- for example it makes sense to see prefixes like "Brine" or "Marsh" if the conditions have something to do with green water. Resources with the Mountainous rule might have prefixes like "Peak" in there, etc. Overall this should improve both game feel and player learning.

  • Resources will be able to generate where solids would normally appear again. In fact they can generate on any natural tile, not just floor tiles. I might decrease their distribution a bit to help rebalance.

    Resource conditions

    Next, I'm going to describe the conditions that determine what kind of resource you get. Every single possibility and combination isn't represented in a particular dimension -- there's a lot of general forms too which makes some resources more common than others. More on this in the Rarities section.

    The players don't see these names -- these are for internal use. They'll get something more verbose.

    Single conditions

    These can't pair with any other condition, so rarity is dictated by R.

  • Isolated R-F -- The resource needs to be by itself within a range of R. F here can represent a specific color in the floor palette but will usually mean any floor tile.

  • Mountainous R -- completely surrounded by natural solid tiles R range away.

  • Submerged R-W -- The resource needs to be completely surrounded by water up to R range away. W here represents a type of water -- [any water, a water transition zone or a specific color (green,blue,cyan,brown,gray in the starting dimension)]

  • Cliff C-O -- Bordered by both water and solid, but only water and solid. C here represents "continuity" -- a whole continuity means you need a single continuous piece for the solid and water, while a piecemeal continuity lets you have things like solid,water,solid,water going around clockwise. O represents the ratio between the two parts which in this case is [any ratio, "surrounded" (1-2 solid), "equal" (4 of each), "heavy" 7-8 solid]. Other ratios seem like they'd be too confusing to keep track of.

  • Shore C-O -- Bordered by both water and floor, but only water and floor.

  • Mountainside C-O -- Bordered by both solid and floor, but only solid and floor.

    Piecemeal conditions

    These conditions can be combined with other piecemeal conditions, which increases their rarity.

  • Wet W -- The resource needs to have at least three water tiles around it. They don't need to be continuous. W here indicates a water type (see above).

  • Rocky -- has exactly one solid tile on a border. It can be a diagonal, not just an orthogonal.

  • Between -- between exactly two solid tiles that are opposite one another. Obviously can't be paired with Rocky.

  • Clustered E -- Needs another resource adjacent to it. The resource can't be picked up yet. E here can represent [any resource,the same resource you're picking up,a specific resource (grass, rock, etc)].

  • Void D -- Needs the void sea within D range. This needs natural void, not player-placed void (ie via the aleph naught). Materials with this condition can't be used to research anything in the basic portals tech tree (since basic portals are necessary for visiting towns, which is the most reliable way to reach the void sea).

  • Structure D-S -- Needs a non-player-built structure within D range, such as a dungeon, town, etc. S can be any structure or a specific type (for now this is [town,strange loop,dungeon]). Given the limitations of specific S's, conditions that use that can't be piecemeal with other ones and/or their use needs to be more limited before you can go into other dimensions.

  • Harmonic H -- Needs a certain amount of other types of resources on screen (and not picked up obviously), represented by H. H can go up to 3 -- having all five resources on screen is possible (I've seen it before), but it's rare.

  • Symbiotic M -- Requires that there be an M on screen. M can be one of the following: [Starshard, cave hole]. Only one Symbiotic condition can be in place at once.


    Each home dimension also has five "normal" resources as a fallback in case none of the correct conditions are true. Fallbacks have some special naming and are designed to have weak procedural generation.

    Discoveries v2

    Given this set of changes, the discoveries tab as it is now doesn't make much sense -- though there are already issues with it. So instead, there will be a "Terrain" widget on the left with a "resources" section that tells you what to look for for the resources you've discovered, as well as the number of resources you have left to discover in a dimension.

    Resources can be discovered in three ways:

  • By picking the resource up directly.

  • By having the resource show up in a recipe or information that traces back to a recipe. This ties into various systems that use materials such as the one that lets you do base or fishing research. Tl;dr though if you want to craft something you'll then at least know how to find the material for it.

  • By using Books -- this item is also used to open up Lore, but it makes sense here as well and adds another use for that item. It seems like a good idea to make Books also unlock other terrain-based discoveries (like trapping maybe).

    Caves Changes

    Caves are migrating to this system, and there are general caves changes as well that simplify those systems and bring them in line with the new way of doing things:

  • Metal distribution in the home dimension will be one of each element, to tie it in better with the new metalworking system. Color-coding should make sense. It also makes a lot of sense from a lore standpoint (caves are the fourth tetrad with elements of all three main ones). Alternate dimensions can be more scattered. Note that while this means all six elements will appear, there could potentially be a lot more than six metals because of how the new resources system works.

  • Precious metals are changing again -- more on this in the Rocks section.

  • Vein distribution will change -- it'll still be mostly veins but there will be isolated resources too, kind of the opposite from the overworld.

  • Quartz is being removed -- it's pointless and also difficult to get from the world. Starshards keep getting more common and having more uses, so quartz really isn't required anymore for anything. Game progression doesn't need to be rerouted because the procedurally generated recipes for research/etc is what will be driving you into deep caves now.

  • Cave fallbacks

    Caves Resource Condition Changes

    Resource conditions in caves are identical to the overworld with the following exceptions:

  • The F in Isolated has more types it can choose from since cave floors potentially have more colors. Or if I don't get to that, the F characteristic just won't be in play.

  • Harmonic and Structure aren't used.

  • Symbiotic's types are [Gashroom, Crystal, Cave hole/quantum hole, altar, aether lens]. Two symbiotics can be in play at once with cave resources, however crystals can't be paired with anything else (since they should be quite rare).

  • With caves, Clustered is more common, and Isolated rarer, which is the opposite from the overworld. This will only be in play if rarity/commonality is important to anything, which caves resources are in a deeper progression tier anyway so this probably won't matter.

    Caves: New Single Conditions

  • Burning R -- completely surrounded by lava, up to R range away.

  • Lava Cliff C-O -- basically identical to Cliff, but uses lava instead of water.

  • Lava Shore C-O -- identical to Shore, but uses lava instead of water.

  • Obsidian C-O -- Bordered by lava and water, but only lava and water.

    Caves: New Piecemeal Conditions

  • Level L -- Appears at certain parts of the cave levels. L here can represent [1-3, 4-7, 8-10].

    Rocks v2

    Rocks are getting a serious overhaul and are making their way into caves as well. These changes will make rocks a lot more interesting and useful, while simultaneously simplifying core game mechanics so raw resources are all on the same system.

  • First of all, both Insects and Rocks will get merged into the Raw Materials category. This means that you can open the Raw Materials tab in your inventory and easily track everything you're picking up instead of it being spread into three categories.

  • Rocks will become extractable, and the materials extracted from them are what is actually used in recipes (which makes more sense really). Rocks can also have multiple "rocks" within them in different concentrations, and additionally there can be other various useful materials potentially extracted from them with rarer chances.

  • Cave resources will be rocks rather than metals -- these will however be a bit different.

    Overworld Rock Extracts

  • Flint -- this is where most of the current rock recipes (for weapons, etc) get moved to. A particular rock can be extracted for more than one type of flint, so for example Feldspar might turn into Feldspar Flint but you might also be able to get Feldaas Flint. The naming is mutagenic from the actual rock name.

  • Powder -- Fine-grained extracts of rocks. This is where the bombs recipe gets moved to.

  • Ore -- Surface rocks can sometimes have ores in them -- although the extract chance is low, this gives you a way to get metals without going into caves.

  • Starshard -- Rocks can sometimes have starshards in them, though this is rare. The extraction chance is quite low.

  • Silt, Sand, Gravel, Clay -- Homogeneous materials that can sometimes appear in a rock, with varying chances of extraction. They will probably play a role in some of the crafting systems. Scrappable

    Cave Rock Extracts

  • Ore -- Always in a cave rock.

  • Precious Ore -- Also always in a cave rock, however the extraction chance is low. This is the new way to get precious metals.

  • Oil -- Can sometimes appear in a cave rock. Oil can be used anywhere Fat could have been (Bombs for example) and goes in the same category. Makes torch refueling / bomb creation a lot easier.

  • Flint, Powder, Starshard, Silt, Sand, Gravel, Clay -- Cave rocks can resemble overworld rocks, however these substances are less common in cave rocks.


    This is a pretty big update, but it heavily improves the game and brings things back around to the core game mechanics.

    This update will make the Mining update way way simpler, so I'll probably get to that post next. Additionally, the Conditions mentioned here should be what I need for the other terrain-based systems (with some minor changes probably), so I'll be able to build out that set of notes as well.

  • 6 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Mouse Movement (UX)

    Purely a UX thing.

  • There should be a toggle for this (spacebar maybe?)

  • Based on positions in the table.

  • The further away from the player the mouse is, the faster you move. Get in closer and you move more slowly.

  • Interacting with anything drops you out of mouse mode.

  • Combat also drops you out of mouse mode.

  • Mouse functions of any kind (mouse.click_data) also drop you out of mouse mode -- will unfortunately need to generalize all use of this, which isn't a bad idea anyway).

  • "Diagonals" measure your X and Y to that direction and try to maintain a "ratio" between them by measuring old steps.

  • 6 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Misc Materials Integration

  • Additionally though I'd like to migrate loot over to pulling from the grand materials list in a dimension + that of dimensions along trade routes (though those are rarer). Would like to get shops on the same system. This would make loot made from stealing a heck of a lot more valuable -- another useful way to get the materials needed for a procgen recipe.

  • The best way to do the above is to create a separate itemgen function for world-init-gen, and hook that back into the resources generator (which is exactly one place). The rest of the itemgen functions pull from that list or indexes of it (need to make those). Would simplify things a heck of a lot. Trade routes would require prebuilding/indexing those too -- may want to scrap that though.

  • Another change I'd like to make is to make shops have furniture/loot that matches their specialty 90% of the time -- this was already planned, scrapped, but it does make sense again -- would make looking around for different types of shops way more profitable. Would also make houses different from each other theft-wise which is pretty important. Might require a lot of changes to furniture, or just some hacks to get the loot working differently, depending on how I want to approach this.

  • 6 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Camping update

    Just a few small changes.

  • Camping no longer uses terrain stuff.

  • Camping requires pitching tents from the surface menu -- they're homogeneous materials made from cloth and twine.

  • Pull off the potionmaking function of camping -- they exclusively let you sleep/rest.

  • Once placed you can use that tent repeatedly.

    Portable Fixtures

    I'm not quite sure how this works, but you'll be able to pack up base fixtures and make them portable, and can interact with them anywhere you've placed a tent.

  • The base storage functionality of this would obsolete that mount/scout animal function, which is probably for the best.

  • Portable fixtures require batteries to use -- made from the battery station. The portable fixtures module will also unlock the battery station if you haven't already.

  • The battery station itself can't be packed up -- makes no sense.

  • 6 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Minor Gashroom Bomb Update

  • Get rid of quartzbombs and the "use quartzbomb on altar" and related stuff.

  • Placing a gashroom bomb on an altar or aether lens will bring up a "Quartz Resonance" menu -- this lets you put quartz in to resonate at a 1:3 ratio.

  • If you put in zero you just collect the altar/aether lens as a quartz.

  • Resonance means you can pick up altars and aether lenses up as quartz by walking into them. The resonance stat here is the number of times you can do this, which goes down by one every time you pick one up. It might change the appearance of those fixtures somewhat (possibly just the symcolor).

  • 6 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Bombs v1 Brainstorming

    I'm still thinking this system through somewhat, but I have some ideas for a final version with more variety:

    Basic bomb effects

  • Forward Bombs

  • Cross Bombs

  • Square Bombs

  • Funnel bomb (like forward bomb but funneled outwards)

  • Spray (placed tile and random tiles around it)

    Still todo

    placement range
    chance of not using bomb
    secondary explosion chances
    secondary explosion shape
    forward/cross width / optional width (esp forward diagonal)
    opt destroy water/lava/both (all are rare)
    damage enemies main/secondary
    -- bomb map

  • 6 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Trading Upgrades

  • Currency names should be based on a dimension's element, including the starting dimension which should always be wind or something. They should be a bit random however, like for a seed's fire dimensions they can be called "flames" or "salamanders" -- it'll replicate across all fire dimensions in that seed but be different in other seeds.

  • You should be able to do a 2:1 currency exchange in the town tools area -- converts anything to the current currency.

  • There should also be a bank fixture that does this, however you can turn any currency into any other currency.

  • Have very very valuable trading items to convert wealth a tier beyond that of polished crystals. These only appear if you have over 100k of the dimension's currency

  • Buy all / sell all / buysell specific amounts

    More stuff (maybe)

  • A special currency has an exchange rate of 1000 of any other currency to 1 of it. Maybe 100 is more reasonable.

  • 10 of these can be used to unlock a trade route, or 50 to unlock a strange loop symbol -- you can only type in symbols that you've unlocked.

  • Quests can also unlock trade routes if they involve the dimensions there.

    This makes getting to alternate dimensions a bit more challenging without explicitly requiring game progression.

  • 5 Months ago
    Sky's the limit

    Running Misc

  • System-specific extracts should be more likely to tie into potion ingredients that are useful there -- like fish extracts should be likely to improve fishing, cave fish extracts should improve caves, etc.

  • There should occasionally (but rarely) be doorways between one town in a loop and another town in a different loop (maybe with the same element) -- they can't be cities or nexuses and also can't fall along trade routes.

  • 1 Week ago
    Sky's the limit

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